Ontario denies appeal against their breed ban

The folks in Ontario were denied in their appeal against their breed ban.  Once again personal rights and freedoms were denied instead with states having the right to take them away with no evidence that what they are doing is justified or necessary. All in the name of public safety right? Don't look at the "dog people" for support when we end up dealing with wire tapping issues and other personal privacy issues in the name of public safety. Just sayin'.

I haven't gotten the chance to read the entire decision, but Caveat has, and has build a strong opinion over at her place.

While I've always maintained the BSL has several elements that are directly counter to the US Constitution, I've quit getting my hopes up that the courts will side with us.  Instead, I keep thinking that our strongest ally will be the court of public opinion -- which I think is beginning to see that this legislation is not effective, expensive, impossible to enforce and founded on bad data.

This is what is happening in Ottawa, Ontario -- as they have announced that they are no longer going to actively enforce Ontario's ban because it is unenforceable and a waste of their law enforcement officer's time.

Like I've always said, I know more about dogs than the average person and will frequently see dogs that I don't know whether or not they are a "pit bull" breed or not -- but I've never once seen a dog and questioned whether or not I thought it was aggressive. Seems like behavior is a much simpler and more reliable way of enforcing a dangerous dog ordinance to me...and I think the court of public opinion, unlike the "real" courts, is starting to get on board.

Comments

[Sad for Canada]

Not only was their Appeal denied but the Gov`t`s cross appeal was allowed.
The Owners have lost everything they gained in their first case.
That`s a double whammy for them.
I hope if they appeal to their Supreme Court that dog owners around the world will support them.
This is a death sentence for hundreds of thousands of dogs now.
This just tells me that Courts are not looking at evidence about these dogs.
This is outrageous.
I don`t know how Courts are getting away with this.

[EmilyS]

No the courts are not with us... at least not the high ones. How many times do we have to be beat over the head (Colorado, Ohio, now this) before we get it? The more of these precedents get hardened, the worse it gets for us.

The solution is to elect better legislators who are on our side, and then get better laws.

[Sad for Canada]

Has anyone thought of non compliance by good owners?

We already know that the Dog Fighters,Drug Dealers etc are NOT complying with Breed Specific Laws.

We know that some areas have rejected BSL due to the cost of attempting to enforce it and the Court costs if it`s challenged as it usually is.

What if the ONLY people that comply with it(the Responsible people)simply say no.
If they think it`s expensive when most people DO comply with it,can you imagine the costs if EVERYONE simply stops complying and EVERYONE is prepared to challenge the charges in Court.
How much did that Nikko case cost?
How much did Forrest cost Denver?
I don`t know how many individual cases have gone to Court in Canada but how much did they cost?
If they have to take EVERY dog Owner to Court they may start to realize the financial implications.
Maybe instead of taking the Bans to high courts,it might make more sense to help EVERY dog owner that is charged fight at a lower Court level.
Maybe when the Politicians start losing more cases than they win,the financial part might start to bother the Breed Ban Supporters.(It`s their money after all)
Elections are too far apart to depend on that as a solution.
A lot of dogs will die in the interim.

Are responsible dog owners being too compliant for their own good?Are they making this Breed Banning a bit too easy?
Just wondering.

[Sad for Canada]

On a lighter note.
How would everyone like to have a Pit Bull Therapy dog as the new Milk Bone Spokes Dog?
You can read about Ruby here.
http://wcco.com/pets/milk.bone.spokesdog.2.847563.html
You`ll see the link to vote on that article.
Let`s get a Pit Bull on the Milk Bone Box!
Sorry Canadians only U.S. citizens can vote.

[Selma]

The reason the good owners are the only ones complying is because they actually care about their dogs and never created problems in the first place.

Municipal cases in Ontario are averaging $75 - 100K on the taxpayers' tab, cheaper for the citizens.

This decision makes no sense to me, much like the law itself. It is kind of scary that judges don't seem to get it and are easily bamboozled by nonsense. No wonder we have trouble with the kool-aid drinking public.

[Duking it out?]

[quote]Municipal cases in Ontario are averaging $75 - 100K on the taxpayers' tab, cheaper for the citizens.[/quote]

Per case??
Wouldn`t that alone wake up the Public?
I wonder if Court costs for all these cases around the World could be accessed and made available to the Public.
That`s not how I want my tax dollars spent.

It`s one thing to go all the way to get a conviction of an owner whose dog has killed or caused a very serious injury to a person.
It`s quite another to spend that money to take a non offending dog away from someone.

I would love to know how much that Nikko case cost everyone.

[Donna]

> that our strongest ally will be the court of public opinion

Absolutely. It sounds crazy, but the television tabloid court shows are a perfect example of how much personal bias judges bring to their courtrooms when cases involve dogs.

I'm sorry for Ontario -- We all want change now because we're so close to the ruin. But the courts will follow public opinion and their own belief system, not a lawyer's arguments with this topic. It'll take time to shift general opinion back into balance using a combination of education, positive PR and work to strengthen the resolve of the dogs' best allies.

It's all about timing. Don't give up.

[Selma]

From the Ochoa case:

"We note that the
dockets for the Respondent were approximately $92,000.00 and
Ms. Mendelson reduced the docketed time to approximately 1/3"

That's the billing rate for the City lawyers in that case, lifted from the judgement. $92K to kill somebody's dog.

Yes, Donna, we need to change the weather, no question. We can't quit. We can't leave this decision as is. We're resting up for a couple of days, batting ideas around.

[Canada confuses me]

Having read that Ontario Decision a few more times,I`m still scratching my head.
They DON`T have to resolve conflicting evidence?????

Isn`t that the whole purpose of the Courts or is this just a Canadian thing?

What would be the point of this exercise???
Just to rubber stamp the Ontario Gov`t Legislation at a higher level?

I`m confused.
Why are Experts and supposed Experts called in to testify?

[PAMM - People Against Mad Mothers]

Move to Calgary.

[MichelleD]

Civil disobedience - I like it. I have the money for a court case (we have been saving $$ since we got into this for just such an event) but here's the rub - do I potentially sacrifice my dog, or maybe use a foster pit bull and sacrifice them, in case I loose? One way to look at it is you take a pit bull out of the shelter that would have died anyway, maybe that sacrifice is worth the good of teh whole. But the fear of the dog being killed is probably what keeps most people in check. I seriously think I would have a mental breakdown if that happened to my dog. IDK...

[PAMM - People Against Mad Mothers]

Another thing on the non compliance thing - how about the VETS that participate in the killing by testifying these dogs are pit bulls? How about the ACOs that participate by enforcing these laws? How about the people who buy their insurance from companies that descriminate on breeds? There are plenty of INS companies that don't btw...

And the WORST OF THEM: How about the "HUMANE SOCIETIES" like in Nebraska that don't refuse to enforce these laws? NHS had the absolute power to tell the govt of Omaha to go fuck themselves but didn't because they love the funding the city gives them more than they care about the animals.

TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW NOT TO USE VETS LIKE DR SWANSON IN KCK. AND DON'T DONATE A DIME TO THE NEBRASKA HUMANE SOCIETY UNTIL THEY REFUSE TO ENFORCE BSL!!!